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Combining South and North American World Cup Qualifying Groups

I’m have to preface this post by saying that I know this will never ever happen.  But I can dream.

I’ve been sitting here in South America watching the start of another long world cup qualifying campaign and I’m completely jealous.  The games have passion, everyone’s watching and the teams are fielding their best players.  I compare it to the US/Mexico qualifying groups and just shake my head.  Like I said, this will never happen, but roll with me for a minute:

I would absolutely love to see North and South America merge their World Cup qualifying groups to create one large super group. Concacaf, which is made up of USA, Mexico, Canada, Central America and the Caribbean, currently gets 3.5 spots in the World Cup: 3 automatic bids, plus the 4th place team plays Oceania’s champion in a playoff.  The US and Mexico always make it and the qualifiers are completely boring.  Unless something crazy happens, Mexico and the US qualify fairly early on and don’t really have that hard of a road into the World Cup.

Our group doesn’t provide a good test to prepare us for the World Cup and doesn’t make our team better.  Don’t get me wrong, I love the fact that the US is pretty much a lock for the World Cup every four years, but I’d rather exchange our quasi-automatic birth for great qualifying trips to Brazil, Argentina, Chile and the rest of South America.  I think the US would still be very likely to make the World Cup each time, but we’d be way better prepared when facing tough competition in international tournaments.  I think the US has about a 95% chance of making the World Cup in its current group and we’d have about an 85% chance if we combined into one group.

Currently Concacaf gets 3.5 spots and Conmebol, South America’s federation, gets 4.5.  I propose that North and South America combine to get 8 guaranteed spots, but teams 8 and 9 would have a one game playoff to see who makes the World Cup.  There are 10 teams in South America and 35 in Concacaf.  I would take the top 14 teams in Concacaf and create a 24 team group, with four groups of six.  Eight of the 24 would make the World Cup.

South American teams would benefit because they would likely soak up 1-2 extra World Cup spots at the expense of teams like Costa Rica, Trinidad and Tobago and Guatemala.  They would also expand their markets into Mexico and the US, likely earning more money and more exposure in foreign markets.

I think Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, Chile, Uruguay and the US would likely make the World Cup pretty much every time.  The other two spots would come down to a fight between Paraguay, Ecuador, Columbia, Peru, Costa Rica, Guatemala and Honduras.  South America would get an extra 1-2 spots in the World Cup and Mexico and the US would have a harder road.

Like I said, I know this will never happen, but it is fun to dream.  At the very least, a combined tournament between Concacaf and Conmebol to compete with the European Championships in off years from Copa America and the Gold Cup would be a welcome addition the world of soccer.

Travelogue: Pucón and Lakes Region

My parents came to visit me in Chile at the end of April and we decided to go to Pucón and the lakes region, but I got lazy in my blogging and didn’t write up this post until just now.  We started off in sunny Santiago in our tiny little Chevy Spark and took the highway south.  The weather was beautiful and we could still see the Andes to the east as we were driving out of the city.  The route south is beautiful, starting with vineyards and wine country, later turning into rolling hills and lush greenery.  A few hours south of Santiago, the sun started to set, projecting brilliant reds and pinks on the Andes.

We stopped our first night in Chillan, a medium sized town about four hours south of Santiago.  We didn’t see much since we were just staying over, but the town center looked really interesting.  The next morning, we got up early and started to drive south again.  After a few hours, we got off the main highway and drove toward a huge volcano, shrouded in clouds.  I hadn’t seen clouds many times since I’d been in Chile, so it was an interesting sight.

As we got closer, the weather started to get worse.  We drove through Villarica and it started to drizzle.  The clouds obscured the volcano.  We knew it was off season and that it might be rainy in Pucón, but we had hoped it would stay dry.  After a beautiful drive along the lake we got to Pucón, a small touristy town of about 25,000 people.  Since it was off season, we pretty much had the place to ourselves.

People had told me that the food in the south was way better than in Santiago and I was not disappointed.  The food was amazing!  We started out by sharing grilled lamb and halfway through our meal, it started to pore.  It was cold out and none of us had any rain gear in the restaurant, so I ran back to the car to drive it around.

One problem.  The car didn’t start.  I had left the lights on.  We tried a push start, but couldn’t get it to work.  I asked a police officer if he could give me a jump, he said he didn’t have cables, but taxis did.  I asked a collectivo, he said he didn’t have any cables.  I talked to four different taxis, all of whom said they couldn’t help me.  I even offered to pay.  Finally, one taxi told me that if I bought cables he would help me.  Five minutes later, I had the cables, but he had driven away.  I walked back to the car, cables in hand and luckily a nice guy stopped and agreed to help out.  After about an hour, we were on our way.  Since the battery was dead, we had to drive around for awhile, which was alright because it was raining.  This would become a recurring theme.

We stayed the night in Pucón and walked around as the clouds started to clear.  We decided to take a walk on the beach.  Just before sunset, it started to drizzle.  Luckily, that meant we got to see a rainbow.  And not just any rainbow.  A double rainbow.

Later that night, we had another amazing meal. This time we split venison stew and a wild boar dish with veggies.  It was hearty, warm and filling.  Perfect for a cool and rainy night.  The next morning, it was raining again and we planned to take a drive toward Argentina, but when I tried to start the car, it was dead.  The guy at the hotel jumped us and we decided to drive around to other towns to charge it up again.  The weather started to clear in the afternoon and we drove through a bunch of small towns and ended up in Villarica, a less touristy town 20 miles from Pucón.  We stayed above an italian restaurant, walked around the city and ate some great fish at a small restaurant.

The next morning, the car started up like a charm and we took a drive toward the Argentina border.  We drove through a bunch of smalls towns and were pretty much the only tourists.  Each town was a a little different and the weather was perfect.  Curarrehue was a hidden gem.  We walked around, checked out the Mapuche museum and then walked into a bakery called Pasteleria La Cocina de Elisa on the main plaza for a small snack.  We smelled something amazing and I asked what it was.  The baker, Elisa Cea Epuin, brought out fresh baked meat empanadas and we decided we had to have some.  They were amazing, the best I’ve had in Chile.  After we finished, she came out with the fried version.  Amazing again.  Next, we tried some bakery and check out some local canned fruits and jams.  Everything was wild picked, nothing was farmed.  After a few minutes, she emerged from the kitchen with some amazing berry spread.  The baker had been invited to London and Dublin a few years back to make all of her food at the embassy and I can see why they picked her.

After we finished, we got back to the car and what do you know? Another dead battery.  I asked a guy at the only gas station in town and he said he couldn’t help me, but there was a mechanic just down the street.  As I walked up, all the workers and truckers stopped and just sort of stared.  I don’t think they were expecting a family of tourists.   The mechanic was out to lunch, so I went back up to the gas station and sat there until someone agreed to give me a jump again.  Thankfully, this was the last time we’d need our jumper cables.

We drove through the beautiful mountain valleys, past crystal clear lakes and shaded passes under the bright sunlight.  We came to little town called Huife and decided to turn around.  As we were driving back, I saw a sign for a restaurant that was advertising fresh trout, turkey and venison, so we had to stop.  We were the only people around, besides the waitress/cook and the food was amazing.  Rich, savory and fresh.  It was a great decision to stop.

We stayed another night in Pucón and the next day, the weather was really nice and went up the volcano.  It is a huge volcano that has a history of erupting, sometimes destroying the surrounding towns.  It was cloudy in Pucón, but we emerged from the clouds into bright sunlight about halfway up the volcano.  The clouds looked like icing on a cake, covering the valley.  We took a hike up the volcano and started when it was bright and sunny.  It was amazing to see the evidence of past lava flows and the destruction it wreaked on the vegetation. About an hour later, the pea soup had descended and we couldn’t see more than a few feet in front of our faces.  Luckily, the trail was very well marked.  The fog was eerie and outlined the trees perfectly.

The next morning, we drove back to Santiago, capping a great trip to the south.  Although the weather and car trouble were less than optimal, it was an outstanding trip.  I’m really glad my parents got a chance to visit and got to spend some time sharing where I’d been living for the past six months.  I really loved the area around Pucón.  The combination of lakes, mountains, lush green scenery and amazing food is pretty hard to beat.

Advice to New Startup Chile Teams


Since the next group of 110 Startup Chile companies got accepted, I’ve gotten a ton of emails asking for advice.  Where should I live? What should I make sure I avoid doing?  Where should I travel?  What do you wish you had done?  Any tips and tricks?  I’ve responded to most of them, so I took a compilation of all of the questions and made a list of my advice to the new Startup Chile Teams.  If you’ve got more questions, I’m happy to answer either via email or in the comments.

1. Spanish

Enroll in a Spanish class in your home town.  Take another one when you arrive.  While Spanish is not required, take a crash course before you leave.  Take a 2 week course, at least when you get here.  I regret not doing it.  I had a ton more fun once i started learning in earnest in early January as I made friend with more Chileans and drank beers with the aweome Juan Pablo Tapia twice a week to learn Spanish.  There’s just so many more opportunities when you can at least understand what’s going on and participate a little

If you don’t speak any Spanish, you’ll survive and do fine, but being able to speak just a little bit will make your stay that much more fun.

2. Where to live

If you’re young, live in Providencia between Salvador and Tobalaba metro stops or in Bellas Artes.  Providencia is a little nicer, but Bellas Artes is an up and coming, sorta hip area.  Both are close to the metro, walking distance from bars, restaurants, grocery stores.  I lived right by the Pedro de Valdivia metro stop.  I wished i had lived about 2-3 blocks off of Av. Providencia as it is much quieter.

I also love the Pedro de Valdivia neighborhood across the river, close to Cerro San Cristobal. If you find a good apartment, get it quickly, they fill up fast.  You can live farther “up” in Las Condes, but it gets more expensive and there are fewer things to do at night.  El Golf to Alcantara metro stops is expensive and is the finance center “Sanhattan.”  Farhter up is more high rise condos, around Escuela Militar and Manquehue not much to do.  These are good places for families.  Vitacura is good if you plan to work from home or have a family, but its not close to the metro and is one of the most expensive places in the city.

It’s a good idea to start looking for apartments before you get here.  You can save time, effort and money by doing research ahead of time.  Also, consider living with Chileans.  A few of my friends did it and they paid less, had friends right away and could ask questions of people when they were lost.

3. Internet

We had VTR highspeed internet in our apartment and also an Entel Banda Ancha Movil (high speed broadband card).  They are fairly cheap, soget the fastest one you can.  You can travel and work from anywhere and it works in some of the most remote parts of Chile.

4. Make friends with your fellow entrepreneurs

My friends from Startup Chile are one of the main reasons I had such an amazing time.

5. Accept all invites you can from chilean entrepreneurs and friends

It’s the best way to know the country and were some of the most fun times I had.  I wished I had accepted more.

6. Grocery Store Advice

At the grocery store, they will likely ask you two questions when you’re checking out.  First, they’ll either say “club lider?” o “acumula puntos?” ,which is their rewards points club.  You can either say no or give them your RUT number.  You can use the points for discoutns later.  If you pay with cash, they’ll ask you if you want to donate the last few pesos to a charity.  Say yes, even the homeless won’t accept 7 pesos.  Seriously, a guy gave my friend back the 1 and 2 peso coins today and kept the 10-100s that he gave him.  If you pay with a creidt card, they will ask “cuotas?” which means payments.  Say no o “sin”.  That just means you want to pay it all at once.

Look for a local produce stand.  The one we go to is el changuito on Manuel Montt.  Its 50% the price of Lider and way higher quality.

7. Arrival

When you first get here, walk all over the city to get to know the place.  Try to make sure that you arrive when Startup Chile can help you get your bank account, RUT and id card.  Your life renting an apartment will be 100x easier if you have these all set up.  Stay in a hostel in Providencia to get acclimated.

8. Taxis

They will likely try to rip you off.  They probably got all of us when we first got here, but just always insist on the meter.  And if the meter looks like it’s going up too fast, just say no, get out and get the next taxi.  There are tons.  Rates should be: $13-15k from the airport to providencia. Bellavista-Central Providencia $1000-2000.  providencia to vitacura, between $2-6k, depending on how far you are going up.  You don’t tip in taxis.

Another sure fire way to make sure you don’t get ripped of is to just get in, say your address with authority, then shut up.  Then they don’t know if you’re a foreigner who lives in Santiago or a tourist.  Or if you start to get comfortable, talk to the taxi drivers.  They are usually super interesting and are the best people to practice Spanish with.  If you screw up, you’ll never see them again and if you don’t understand you can just stop talking.  They also won’t rip you off if you’re trying to talk with them and say that you live here.

9. Metro

The metro is your friend. its easy, cheap and safe.  Buy a BIP card (metro card) your first day here.  Put $5000 on it and recharge as necessary.

1o. Restaurants

They are fairly expensive for what you get.  There are good restaurants here, but you have to find them.  It’s not like in NYC, San Fran or even Madison where you know that if you walk into a restaurant it’s gonna be good. Check my list of my favorites here.

11. Take advantage of the ability to travel.

Go to Mendoza, Viña, San Pedro de Atacama, whatever you can.  Buses are cheap, safe and excellent.  Check last minute deals on LAN or on Sky for cheap flights.  Specials come out every tuesday.  Look in Spanish, the prices are cheaper.  Also, use your RUT to book, you sometimes get better deals.  Be sure to not miss your LAN flights or want to change them.  They are really hard to deal with.  Or just pay more to have the option to change.  Their inflight service is awesome.

Note: If you’re a US citizen and are traveling to Argentina, fly into the non international airport in Buenos Aires, you can likely avoid the reciprocity fee.  If you’re going into Bolivia, you can likely bribe your way in and pay way less.

12. Eat Peruvian food, drink Chilean Wine.

They are both awesome.

13. Take advantage of the networks

Startup Chile gives you a direct line into Chilean entrepreneurship and business culture.  Use it as much as you can.  Make connections.

14. Blog about your experiences

My Startup Chile posts are some of the highest trafficked on my blog.  Plus, the memories are worth it.

15. Going out

Learn to like Pisco.  It’s cheap and it gets you drunk.  Plus, it’s good.  Try pisco sours, piscola (pisco and coke) or piscola blanca (pisco and sprite).  People eat late and go out late.  If you go to a club before about 130, it’ll be empty.  Thursday and Saturdays are the best nights to go out.  Fridays are ok, but not as good.

16. Nothing is open on Sunday

Only the big chain restaurants, big malls and a few of the grocery stores are open on Sunday.  Most restaurants are closed.

17. Enjoy every minute, it goes by way too fast

It seems like just yesterday, I was getting off the flight with Jesse, not knowing what to expect, meeting Shahar and Brenna.  Next, Tiago, George, Raj, Felipe and the rest of the crew in the hostel.  Then Paige, Diego(s), Jean and everyone else in the office.  It’s gone by so fast.  I wish I had the energy to do more and would have taken advantage of more of my opportunities.  That said, it’s been the best six months of my life.  It goes by so quick, so take your changes with alacrity!

UPDATE May 7:  I got lots of questions emailed to me, so I added a few here:

1. If you had to do it over again and got the chance to choose any incubator in any tech hub in the world, would you choose Chile again?

From a strict business perspective, there’s no doubt that Y Combinator or Techstars are better programs than Startup Chile.  Business wise, this is a perfect program for founders who don’t have a product fully launched and can build one and start to get results quickly, or a team that has a product launched, but has yet to get lots of traction.

2. How was your experience overall? Is it worth it? I am in India, in what terms was it better than being in your homecountry?

It was a great experience and well worth it for me and the business. $40k in cash, connections with other SUP entrepreneurs and Chilean entrepreneurs, plus connections into the Chilean business networks.

3. What happens to your startup after the program? Do you take it with you? Or are you supposed to leave everything behind? My co-founder has been wondering about that.

It’s your startup. You take it wherever you want.

4. Where did you choose to live during this period? I saw that organizers recommended Ameristar Apart hotel. Did you live there?

I lived in Providencia near the Pedro de Valdivia metro stop.  The Ameristar is in Bellas Artes and a bunch of the teams lived there.  They have good lease terms, but for me, I would rather be in Providencia.

5. About 40K$ subsidy that organizer promise, did you get the full sum?
Yes.

6. How exactly do you get it, is it only comes exactly for covering your business and living expenses during 6 months or is it your money that you can spend as you wish?

I’m not sure how it works for the new teams, but for us, it was all reimbursements.  We could spend it on business expenses, rent, food etc.  No alcohol, vacations, gambling etc.  $40k was $40k no matter how we spent it.  We lived cheaply and spent the rest on the business.  Not sure what the rules are for the new teams.

7. How productive was your work at Chile? Are you satisfied from it?

We were less productive while in Chile, no question, but I think the loss of productivity was probably 10% or so.  I think the lowered productivity was a result of becoming friends with new entrepreneurs and taking advantage of the opportunity to be in a new city.

8. Did you succeed to create any new business possibilities in Chile and South America or your worked mainly for your original home market?

We mostly attacked the US market, but Chileans are now our second most registered users.
Travel posts:

Travelogue: Torres del Paine, Patagonia

Travelogue: Mendoza, Argentina

Travelogue: San Pedro de Atacama

Travelogue: Uyuni, Bolivia

Travelogue: La Serena and Valle del Elqui

My Favorite Places in Santiago

Travelogue: Pichilemu

A Quick Trip to Viña del Mar

Chile posts:

Startup Chile FAQ

I am United Statesian

Chile at Ten Weeks

Punishing Failure

Christmas in July

Futbolito, Facebook and Other Observations from Chile

My First Christmas Away from Home

First Impressions from Santiago

Updated:

If you’re looking for a furnished rental in Santiago, Chile, check out Andes Property, my furnished apartment rental service.

Travelogue: Uyuni, Bolivia

After San Pedro, I took four days to explore southwestern Bolivia.  Bolivia is the poorest country in all of Latin America and it shows.  I didn’t see a single paved road, even the roads in Uyuni that connect the city of 20,000 with both of the two capitals.  Although it’s very poor, it seemed very safe.  The overwhelmingly indigenous population seemed laid back and welcoming.  The Bolivian president Evo Morales claims to be the first indigenous president of a South American country and his picture was everywhere.

Bolivia is poor in large part to losing a huge swathe of land, including its access to the sea, to Chile in a war in the 1880s.  They also lost huge mineral deposits in the mineral rich northern part of what is now Chile.  There is still huge animosity between Chile, Bolivia and Peru, much of it stemming from this war in the 1880s.

Our four day trek took us through amazing terrain, culminating in the salar de uyuni, which is the worlds largest salt flat.  I went with five people from the San Pedro trip and  we booked our trip in city center a few days before we wanted to leave.  Our package cost $180 and included all transportation, three nights accommodation, four days of meals and a tour guide.  US Citizens have to pay $140 to enter most South American countries because we slapped a fee on South American citizens after 9/11 (really dumb), but I got away with only paying a portion of the fee at the tiny border crossing with some well placed…words.

We entered Bolivia and were immediately in the Eduardo Avaroa national park, a joint venture between the Bolivia government and the European Union.  We drove past laguna blanca, a perfectly clear lake that reflects the sky.  It was a beautiful and a great start to the trip.  We drove across bumpy dirt roads, sometimes covered with water from the melting snow on the mountains.  Our guide told us he had never seen snow on the mountains in February in his three years of guiding, so again, we were incredibly lucky.  The mountains and stark landscape were stunning.

Next, we got to a hot springs at the foot of a mountain lake.  We were at 4800m, which meant that there was only about 44% as much oxygen compared to sea level.  It made breathing difficult and we all got light headed after 20 minutes in teh hot springs.  the lake was full of colors and we could see lightning over the tops of mountains far in the distance.

After another few hour drive, we got to laguna colorada, which has blood red water.  We ate homemade soup and fresh veggies for lunch, prepared by our guide.  After lunch, we took a walk to an overlook point and watched the flamingos and the scenery.  It was incredibly windy and I was glad that I bought a wool sweater the day before.

My head hurt from the altitude, so I tried chewing some coca leaves, which is supposed to relieve your headache.  You mash 6-10 leaves in between your lip and your gum and let it sit there.  You can add bicarbonate and it releases more of the drug.  30 minutes later, I felt a little like I had ADD, but my headache was gone.  We also tried coca tea, which sort of tasted like seaweed in sushi restaurants.  Both clearly helped.

We spent the night at the hostel overlooking laguna colorada.  The night sky was absolutely stunning, even better than San Pedro.  The stars twinkled and I think I could see more stars that I’ve ever seen anywhere else in the world.  The combination of the altitude and lack of light pollution showed how truly small we are.  A shooting star topped it off and told me it was time to go to bed.

The hostel was cold, but my sleeping bag kept me war.  We had been warned not to drink alcohol or eat meat, but I had a very small glass of wine, maybe 2 oz, with dinner and woke up with a splitting headache.  The thin air makes alcohol really hard on your body.  The bathroom was really bad, so I just went outside when I had to go.

The next morning, we drove across the bolivian altiplano, stopping at strange, beautiful scenery every few minutes.  We ate a snack at a string of lagoons that reflected the mountains perfectly and continued past landmarks that looked like Dali paintings.   That afternoon we dined on llama, eggs, veggie soup in a town of 150 in the middle of nowhere.  The food was fantastic, balanced and healthy.  The eggs were from chickens running around the parking lot outside and tasted different than the factory eggs we get in the States.

We ended the day in Uyuni, a town of 20,000 near the Salar.  We ate dinner in a massive thunder storm.  I didn’t have a raincoat, so I used a trash bag, which an 8 year old Chilean on the trip thought was hilarious.  I told him it was the new fashion, straight from Santiago, and he couldn’t stop laughing.  The hotel was nice, with flushing toilets and a shower.  We had time to check out the town, which is bustling with energy.  It had rained, so there was water in some parts of the dirt roads.

Kids were having tons of fun with squirt guns and water balloons, throwing them at their friends (and random people) of the opposite sex.  I got crushed twice by 6-10 year old girls yelling “get the gringo” as they were laughing and playing.  I was really tempted to buy a squirt gun and join the battles, but we didn’t have time.

We went to bed early sot hat we could get to the salar the next day.  We first stopped at a cemetery for trains, which has a bunch of 80-100 year old trains that used to run between Chile, Bolivia and Argentina.  They were cool looking and full of history and our guide told us there are plans to build a proper museum.  After a bit, we finally got to the salar.

The salar is a huge salt flat that sometimes is covered by 1-3 inches of water.  We were extremely lucky to visit while it was flooded.  It was unbelievable.  Like nothing I’ve ever seen.  It went on for miles, nothingness, like a mirror.  I could see the curve of the earth.  You loose all perspective and it looks like people are taking their next step off the edge of the world.  You can also take funny photos.  The weather was hot, the water warm, the salt crystals were sharp on my feet.  We ate llama chops for lunch while sitting on top of our jeep.  It was truly beautiful, like nothing I’ve ever seen before.  It was the highlight of the trip.

We started to drive back and things got a little sketchy.  Our tour company didn’t have any pickups at the border scheduled for the next day, so they sold us to a different tour company.  They split up our group of 6 in two two groups of three, mostly so they could fit extra paying passengers into the jeeps.  They put us in separate hostels, without telling us they would and then were very light on details about what was happening with our friends.  It was sketchy, but everything was completely fine and would have been fixed with a 5 minute walk+helpful two sentences from our guides.

The next morning we drove back to the Chilean border and back into San Pedro.  It was an amazing trip that included things I’ve never seen before.  It gave me time to recharge and think about what really matters in life.  No internet, TV and other modern conveniences.  It was great.

Here’s a few tips for those who would like to go in the future:

  1. Get a good guide.   If coming from Chile, you buy your tickets in San Pedro.  We used Colque Tours and I was happy about it.
  2. Bring a sleeping bag.  The hostels can be frigid at night.  I’m glad I brought mine.
  3. Bring lots of layers.  It goes from cold in the morning to hot in the afternoon.  My $12 wool sweater was a great purchase.
  4. Bring at least 5L of bottled water per person.  We brought 7L/person and finished it all in five days.
  5. Bring toilet paper.  The bathrooms are pretty bad in most of the hostels and usually don’t have any.  I went outside and so did most of the girls.
  6. Bring snacks like chocolate, nuts and cookies for quick energy on the road.  The altitude and wind takes it out of you.
  7. Chew coca leaves and try coca tea to relieve your headaches.  Don’t drink alcohol until the 2nd or third day.
  8. Try to get a group.  There were many cars that were international mixes who couldn’t communicate with the guide or each other.  There was a car of 4 Koreans and 2 Hungarians, none of whom spoke Spanish or English.  It wouldn’t be nearly as fun as our car that had 7 people who could communicate in English/Spanish.  If you’re solo, try to join a group where you’ll be able to share a language.
  9. Offer your driver snacks, he’ll love you for it.  Tip him at the end.
  10. Get Bolivianos in Chile, the exchange rate is much better and you’ll have them to use at the border if necessary.

Edit: March 2014. I went with Cordillera Traveller and was much happier than with Colque.